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Published Tuesday, February 09, 2010 in Local
Perdue: Teachers like my pay plan
BY WALTER C. JONES
Morris News Service
ATLANTA -- Quoting results of a survey completed by 20,000 Georgia teachers in December, Gov. Sonny Perdue said Monday that teachers overwhelmingly support his proposal for performance pay and that the leaders of education organizations should pay attention to their members.
"The leaders, I don't think, sometimes don't want to listen to what their members are saying," he said.
The governor met briefly with reporters in his office after three bills were introduced, all aimed at strengthening student performance through promotion of teachers according to their effectiveness. One, Senate Bill 386, sets the mechanism for basing pay raises on the improvement in student scores as well as assessments from fellow teachers and the principal on classroom instruction. A second bill makes it unlawful to tamper with students' standardized tests that the teachers will be evaluated on, and the third strips the pension from any teacher guilty of test cheating.
Perdue's spokesman released the results of the survey conducted by The Parthenon Group which was distributed to every school system with the request that it be handed to each teacher. More than 20,000 returned responses, 15,300 from teachers and the rest from administrators.
While just half said that effective teachers are recognized and rewarded, 83 percent said evaluations were consistent and objective in their own districts. However, 63 percent said that ineffective teachers were not consistently removed from classroom jobs.
Just 47 percent said that "increases in salary should be driven by teacher effectiveness." On the other hand, 73 percent said that "teachers who distinguish themselves as effective should have career-advancement opportunities."
One aim of the pay proposal is to improve student performance by rewarding the educators who influence it the most. Under the proposal, teachers judged the most effective could earn as much as high school football coaches, according to Perdue.
Today, a teacher after 10 years earns about $48,000 compared to as much as $66,000 under his proposal, according to the state's application for the federal grant program Race to the Top.
Securing a share in the Race to the Top funds, an estimated $462 million, is a secondary goal of the performance-pay proposal, Perdue said.
Jeff Hubbard, president of the Georgia Association of Educators, pooh-poohed the survey as not useful since 100 percent of teachers did not respond because it was sent at a busy time as classes were wrapping up for the semester.
Regarding the three bills, he expressed concerns with the pay plan and with taking the pension of someone in a test-tampering case.
"It's way too far to go with that," he said, noting that some instances where test integrity is compromised could be as simple as one student taking out a textbook during an exam.
"Right now, we've got a lot of problems with the legislation," he said, adding that Perdue didn't involve the state's major education organizations in designing the proposal.
In response to critics who say he drafted the pay bill in "relative secrecy," the governor said that the proposal is now before the General Assembly where the public, including interested teachers, have the chance to recommend changes through local legislators.
"The way the process works, the legislature writes the laws. I provide a framework and an idea and a concept that I believe is good for education," he said.
Commenting on this story has ended.
Joebama and Bubba B Nancy Pelosi are both recieving stimulus money.
You two should run for office you could have signss with big red stars on them and little berets and you can call each other comrade then you two can create a beautiful utopia where we can all quit our jobs and drink vodka all day. Commies thats all you are.
Posted by not a socialist at 9:15 AM
You don't care about anything do you except spewing a bunch of nonsense.
Speaking of tea party didn't they have Sarah Palin speak recently? wow isn't she a republican oh thats right your a republican when its convenient for YOU.
Posted by Joe Cool at 7:47 AM
You should change your name from I am not a socialist to I am a idiot. Its obvious from your comments you are out in left field. I mean don't blame for getting picked on in school.
Posted by Bubba B Bad at 12:34 AM
IF you pay taxes you work for me right right.My taxes pay for your police and fire protection so you work for me.
Just because you did terrible in school and its obvious why don't try to take it out on the school system.
Posted by Joe Cool at 12:30 AM
"I can name a bunch of people at the airlines I work at that and in the military that get raises for substandard performance. have you ever worked in the real world?"
You got to be kidding me right. This is some Nazi BS you are spewing. You work at an airline and badmouth the military!!! If it wasnt for the military our airliners would be smashing into stuff every day!!! Yes I work in the real world I work in Logistics and never took one dime from the government. I work 10-20 hour days and you are putting me in the same boat with school teachers. You are the reason this country is broke and we have the president we haVE. I hope you are proud you phony conservative.
Posted by not a socialist at 12:16 AM
I think you miss the point of the whole thing. I dont care how hard teachers have it. I dont care about their self defense classes. If they dont like their Job they can find another one instead of griping like the government owes them a living. the education system is based on a broken assumption and should be done away with. I dont care what teachers are good or bad.... let the free market determine that. Do Harvard professors make more than WGA Professors YES they do because they are (supposabley) more qualified. Joe first off I dont like you bad mouthing the military. Second think about what you are saying.. "working in the real world" I dont think a government socialist job is the "real world". Oh and sorry Mr. Super educated I apologize for having my mind boggled. I just want to fix all of the stuff that Bush and Obama is doing to our great country. Go TEA Party!!!
Posted by not a socialist at 9:32 PM
You said your sick and tired of the comments from teachers and friends of teachers. I am tired of comments from people who have never taught and would not last a day trying to teach over 150 kids a day.
Posted by Bubba B Bad at 8:25 PM
First off nobler its people like you that have never taught but think you are an expert.
As for not a socialist. How do you determine what teacher or teachers are bad or good? SOme it is obvious. But you can't go by the students. The teacher with the good students will of course get better results then the teacher teaching in the ghetto up on Atlanta.
Posted by Bubba B Bad at 8:23 PM
So how do you determine their performance? Not by the kids. Fact is I had a relative that taught in fulton county the school had a self defense instructor come in and give the teachers self defense training. Oh yes this was for a elementary school.
I realize it doesnt take much to boggle your mind. Its people like you that have never taught and think it is so simple to teach over 150 kids per day.
I can name a bunch of people at the airlines I work at that and in the military that get raises for substandard performance. have you ever worked in the real world?
Posted by Joe Cool at 8:20 PM
How about this. Be thankful the government gives you a check at all (If you are a teacher) Other than that all I hear is teachers complaining... Teachers work for US!! If you dont like being a teacher go get a job somewhere else. Now Joe Cool and Bubba you two are spouting about teachers not being paid for performance? that boggles my mind!! Name me one other Job where you get a raise when you do substandard work. You two are a disgrace to all conservatives. Go TEA Party!!
Posted by not a socialist at 7:41 PM
G dont start crying on me now. I mean you have posted some clueless statements. Like I said its all the people that have never taught think that they are the experts.
Posted by Joe Cool at 4:27 PM
Joe - what a hateful, horrible person you must be. It's fine to disagree with someone's opinion. Instead, you are making ridiculous attacks. I can't read? Now if I had posted a semi-incoherent comment full of text talk, you might have a point. But I didn't.
If you can argue about the issue and make a an actual argument (as I did) then do.
Surely you don't think anyone would take your comments or your opinion seriously when you act like that.
And Bubba - you, too, are a horrible blight on this website. I'm not trying to be a Monday morning quarterback.
I'm just SICK of the horrid, ridiculous, behavior and comments from teachers, and "friends of teachers" (with friends like Joe and Bubba, who needs enemies???).
Did anybody learn how to behave honorably either at home or school? I did, at both.
Posted by is it nobler? at 3:26 PM
Have someone read travis and cdog comments to you. Cause I know you can't.
Posted by Joe Cool at 7:28 AM
Thats right you are not a teacher. People like you like to play monday morning quarterback.
Posted by Bubba B Bad at 3:16 AM
Joe Cool - please, please - back up calling me 'clueless."
anybody can spout nonsense, as you have proven.
Posted by is it nobler? at 6:59 PM
You both hit it right.
Posted by Joe Cool at 6:37 PM
Merit pay would ultimately be based solely on student test scores. Guess what? The teachers who luck out with good students will have good scores and the teachers who draw the short straw and get the bad students will have bad scores. Too many other factors influence student scores that just the teacher's teaching. You cannot compare teachers with student test scores unless they are teaching demographically identical students. And that is rarely the case.
Posted by CDog at 4:42 PM
Why don't they get paid like everyone else, the whim of some "boss"?
Posted by Me maw's kid at 4:36 PM
What teacher is going to teach the under priviledged and the the kids from crack parents that don't care if their kids learn anything. Maybe the high paid superintendents can go to the inner city and teach those kids,and pay them for their performance. Oh yeah, lets add ten more kids to the class first. Maybe we will have to outsource our teachers from Mexico.
Posted by Travis at 4:18 PM
You hit the nail on the head. And it's not that hard to come up with a measure. It's called a pre-test and a post-test.
Posted by Ryan at 4:16 PM
Thats why you are not a teacher because you are clueless.
Posted by Joe Cool at 3:57 PM
Does anyone else get the sneaky suspicion that the teachers who are against this are worried their pay may go down because they aren't very good teachers?
Sure, coming up with a way to measure this won't be simple. But surely career educators are smart enough to come up with something good.
If I were a teacher (and I think i might decide to get my masters in my 40s and do it) I would be THRILLED to get the opportunity to make more money by being really good, by really connecting with children and teaching them a love of learning - by being a really good teacher (like some I had) rather than by wasting time on higher degrees.
Heck, I'm sure that the teaching quality (and quality of life) of our teachers suffers while they're trying to juggle all the college they need to advance in their profession, while still teaching full time and having time for their own lives and families. The stress must be horrific.
If they were free to concentrate on teaching , and really getting better at what they do, rather than attending, and paying for some basically useless college classes, I think everybody would be better off (except education professors but maybe they're the root of the problem ;-)
Posted by is it nobler? at 3:36 PM
Why do teachers’ pay schemes have to be based solely on student performance or solely on which degree they hold and how long they’ve worked there?
There is no reason a system cannot be created that incentivizes both pursuing advanced degrees and improving student performance.
Posted by Ryan at 2:20 PM
I want a survey, so do all of my friends who are teachers. I would also like to see the assessments he will be giving to students to assess progress. How are you going to rate teachers without any personal bias? What are the criteria?
Posted by balara at 2:02 PM
I do not think most teachers are in favor of merit pay based on student test scores. The questions on the survey were misleading and wrongly interpreted. I like Sonny in general, but he is wrong on this issue. I don't think he has thought it through.
Posted by CDog at 12:36 PM
I agree our teachers need to be paid more. But I also think its time we started trimming our education budget. Here's an idea, start at the top and trim some of the fat from the state superintendents big paycheck and then work on down through each county superintendent in the state and trim some of the fat from their paychecks, ex, furlough days , reduced trips, and the list could go on and on. Bottom line our superintendents are paid too much, where the ones who actually do the hardest work (our teachers) are paid the least. Let's make some changes.
Posted by Judy at 11:27 AM
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not a socialist
2/11/2010
Link To This Comment
I didn't vote for this president. Its obvious you must work in a cubicle. I work around 200 people. YOur the reason this country is broke.
I bet you sneak out to your mailbox to get the mail at night just so you want have to talk to another human. Its obvious you never worked in the real world. You might be able to get in the military now they have changed the rules to let people like you in.
Posted by Joe Cool at 9:48 AM