Lara...I agree that NCLB is a great IDEA. In practice, it leaves much to be desired. It has set unrealistic and unattainable goals. Expecting 100% of ANY group of kids to pass a single test is madness. Imagine if politicians had to live up to these same expectations. Any politician who doesn't have a 100% approval rating is a failure. Or expecting a ball team to win 100% of its games. Come on. Regarding economically disadvantaged kids, the U.S. Dept. of Education did a study...they found (the same government that put NCLB into place) that economically disadvantaged kids begin school 3 months behind their peers and "never catch up". That is a telling statistic.

Posted by Room405 at 1:34 PM

Regarding the AYP report it seems our schools still need lots of help when helping our black and underpriviledged kids. Maybe "no child left behind" is not such a bad idea.

Posted by Lara McCarthy at 8:57 AM

Private schools are not required by the government to take the CRCT. The federal government threatens to withold funds from states if their schools do not go along with NCLB. Since private schools do not receive government funds...they aren't subject to NCLB. Private schools don't have a better curriculum or better teachers...they just don't have the meddling of the government.

Posted by Room405 at 5:34 PM

How do private schools stack up? Are they given the same testing? Neil Boortz gets on his soapbox about sending your kids to public school to receive a gov't education and I'm beginning to agree.

Posted by Not so sure at 10:47 PM

For those of you believing that this is just a Coweta County problem, I offer you the following numbers (from the DOE): Regarding MATH (59% needed for AYP)...the state average for black students was 60.2% (CCSS: 57.1%), Hispanic students was 68.3% (CCSS: 70.4%), white students was 81% (CCSS: 79.9%), special ed. was 43.9% (CCSS: 38.6%), & Econ Disadvantaged was 61.8% (CCSS: 61%). Reading/ELA scores were all above the required percentage to make AYP. All of the state and CCSS numbers are VERY close. Taking a look at individual systems (all 180+ of them) shows a similar trend. When a test is consistantly "failed" by certain groups of kids, then that test is not written or designed properly. Example...60.2% of black students passed the math portion of the CRCT, but 84.2% of those same kids passed the reading/ELA portion. Only 68% of Hispanic kids passed the math portion of the CRCT, but 84% of them passed the reading/ELA portion. 81% of white kids passed the math, but 93% of them passed reading. The differences are too great to be ignored. The test needs to be adjusted. Sorry for all of the numbers, but I feel that numbers speak volumes.

Posted by Room405 at 2:32 PM

That is a bit odd. I suppose it's a numbers game...If everyone wanting transfers got one, then one school could end up with 1200 students and 20 trailers. I hope that it works out for you.

Posted by Room405 at 2:05 PM

The tone of the article at the point where race and economical standing was stated implied that blacks, special needs and low income students were responsible for the school's failure. I think that it places blame and was written with the full knowledge that it would cause the reaction that it did. I hope that the writer's goal was to open eyes and not cause hard feeling. The writer should note that when you start calling out a particular group of people, you should call them all out. Is this school system failing black, special needs and low income students?

Posted by Linda at 1:58 PM

The facts about race and income affecting AYP are just that, facts. It's all legistics.It's not racist, or discrimination. DOn't take it personally. If all parents took a serious interest in thier child's education the scores would most certainly come up.I have two daughters, one at NHS and one at Evans. They're both straight A students and in the gifted program.Their Dad and I accept nothing less than their very best.We know our children and what they are capable of and expect them to work to their full potential. We both work full time but manage to set aside time to be there to help with homework when they need it.It takes time and commitment but that is what raising children is all about,loving and supporting them to success.

Posted by proud Mom at 1:56 PM

I just spoke to person in charge of transfers at the School Bd. Parents that put in request for transfers earlier in the summer will not hear from the School Bd until the 5th. This doesn't give the parents time to get their children enrolled and in classes. If your child scores high on the CRCT you can be prepared to stay put.(Is this fair to these children) Per, Barker at the school Bd only five transfers per school are granted.

Posted by transfers at 10:41 AM

People! No one is piling on black kids, special ed kids, or poor kids. The fact is this: if any group of kids (A-N-Y) fails to pass the CRCT at a rate of 59%...then the whole school does not make AYP. Reporting the facts does not make one a racist or provide grounds to demand apologies. Look up the numbers for yourself: http://public.doe.k12.ga.us/ayp2008/638.asp For a nice explanation of NCLB, you can visit the CCSS site. Someone there is obviously reading these comments.

Posted by Room405 at 8:07 AM

As I recall earlier articles stated that A & B students had flunked the CSCT test. What happened to those statistics? My child has a learning disability and comes from a low income family, but he passed his CRCT's with flying colors. Yet, this article makes it sound like kids that are black, low income or have learning disabilities are at fault for CC not making the grade. Also, for those parents who have the choose of sending their children to SRMS, think real hard about it because I promise you will regret it. There is only 2 teachers I take my hat off to and that is Mr. Hilderbrand and Mr. Atkins (math teachers).

Posted by upset white mom at 7:34 AM

After reading this article. I will never reach in my pocket to purchase a Times Herald. The writer should evaluated for having no morals. Children read in Coweta, this is their way of increasing their chances of passing the CRCT. It's unfair to blame black students for 3 Schools failure. The private sector is the best choice for the next school term. Kathy Cox has created a disaster.

Posted by Why at 9:52 PM

After reading the article, I am very disapppointed in the CC (BOE) for allowing this articles release to the public without carefully reading it, with aims of not offending anyone. The article is very discouraging for the community and our kids. My 13yr. old had the opportunity to read the newspaper today and became very discouraged with the article. As a parent of a black child that comes from very supportive stable background, I agree with most of the previous postings. IT is unfair to place the blame on African American students as a reason for failure. The writer fail to recongnize the low-income students (white). African American kids only make up a small percentage of most schools population. If the majority are caucasian who's failing? I think the BOE and the Times Herald should apologize for writing such article, especially after pointing the finger at Subgroups.

Posted by Sarah at 9:22 PM

You are comparing Coweta County schools to Fayette County Schools and saying that Fayette county passed in all subgroups. That is interesting because their are no subgroups iof high income families.

Posted by Sub group at 8:09 PM

I agree. Every one of these schools, except one or two, is on this list because of CRCT math scores for Special Ed students. We already knew there was a problem with the new math test this year, but the Times-Herald jumps out with another alarmist article and everyone piles on. Six of these schools are coming off the list to boot once this is refigured! What the newspaper doesn't bother telling you - because it wouldn't generate enough letters to the editor, I guess - is the reason that the school system as a whole didn't make AYP this year is because of... wait for it... CRCT math scores for special ed. They could've found that online if they had bothered, but the story wouldn't have been as sensational. That is a problem (the special ed scores, I mean), but that's not new and that's not a catastrophe, and it is a problem the WHOLE STATE OF GEORGIA is having. It also means, by the right-or-wrong logic of No Child Left Behind, that regular ed students and every other subgroup in these 10 (or 4) schools, and all students in two-thirds of the rest of the schools - are doing fine and making the score. The Times really needs to cool off the sensationalism - it has been piling it on thick this summer - and some of the folks on this site need to step back and take a breath. You may have individual problems with your school, but the schools in general are fine.

Posted by fedup at 7:35 PM

"Look at Fayette County, and some other schools"? Right. Look at them. They got lucky this year. Friend, when 142 out of 184 school SYSTEMS don't make AYP...that shows that the test is out of whack. It's all in the statistics. That's 77% of the SYSTEMS in the state. When a similar percentage of 8th graders failed the SS portion of the CRCT, the test was invalidated. Hmmm...wonder why that was? As for teachers being "afraid" to give a deserved grade...come on. I give my students work that they can handle and work that shows me what they know. THEN I grade them on it. Are my students' scores "inflated" compared to the CRCT? Heck yes. The CRCT is not a fair test of what kids know. So many folks think that they know what this mess is all about, but the comments on this page certainly prove otherwise. You have the right, so post on, but try to be informed first.

Posted by Room405 at 2:52 PM

have any of you realized the schools of choice for the NCLB transfer's? ECMS transfers can only go to SMRS..atleast 30 miles away, with $4 a gallon gas? Come On! Evans kids get the choice to go to LMS OR MMS? AND they get bus transportation..guess who pays for the 30 mile commute everyday? Right..we do, the taxpayers. What our useless "superintendent" and board is trying to do, is keep us parents from transferring our kids. If the superintendent and board would get a handle on our middle schools, WE WOULD NOT HAVE TO PUT IN A TRANSFER. Look at Fayette County Schools ,and some other schools...they have proved, it's not impossible to pass CRCT..that includes ALL SUBGROUPS!

Posted by unbelieveable!! at 12:20 PM

I think that the extensive honor rolls posted from the schools are deceptive. Teachers are afraid to give a student the grade they deserve on the report card. When tests scores come out, are these honor roll students making the cut?

Posted by concerned parent at 11:49 AM

When Cathy Cox office failed to notify CCSS that the CRCT testing and the material being taught were not the same then that contriubted to the failure in the state of Georgia with our children. Mrs. Cox was aware that the children in Georgia in 5th and 8th grade would fail. She knew that the school systems would not adeuqately prepare our children as she withheld curriculm information that would have better prepared our children for the CRCT. Mrs. Cox knew over a year ago that the guidelines for the State of Georgia for the school year 2008-2009 would change for upcoming 9th graders. There is no longer a dual dipolma for high schoolers and the math is now math 1, math 2, math 3, math 4. The credit requirements have also changed for high schoolers. The changes whether with high school, CRCT or whatever is something that has been in the works with the State Office for sometime. I am sure there are teachers through out this state that teach for a pay check and then there are some that teach for the love of teaching as it is their passion. As a parent of a child in special ed and one who is in regular ed. I do not fault CCSS for the "crazy" issues with CRCT, but I fault Cathy Cox and her lack of leadership. Parent need to join forces to get her removed from state office as the "education leader" WE need to storm the state office. Cathy Cox created enough emotional trauma with families and children when she delibaterly withheld school curriculm that would assist our children in being successful. She created disunity between parents, teachers, administrators and school systems. Cathy Cox failed the children of Georgia and created a mess as parents and educators that we will "clean up" for a long time. I can't prepare for what I am not told. We need to stand in unity with Blake Bass and his leadership, but Cathy Cox needs to go.

Posted by Parent Solutation at 10:04 AM

First, the reason schools failed CRCT is not being blamed on the African American race. The newspaper and the county are just stating what the tests show. We know that the information above is true because each CRCT booklet handed out is marked with codes (black/white/other - male/female - special ed.) We know if your child is marked economically disadvantaged if your child is receiving a free/reduced lunch. These are just the facts. There are a lot of black students that are as gifted and talented as white students. Teachers know that. Second of all, I can understand putting blame on students if they are older and are fully capable of passing the CRCT. However, you cannot tell me that my first grader(s) that failed the CRCT chose to fail. You also can't always blame the parents or blame the teacher. The test is difficult! Imagine being six years old and asked to sit still (no talking/moving) from 8:30-11:00 with one small five minute break. Then, imagine being taught to use your alphabet, calendar math, and all the other things hanging in a typical classroom to help you and then having them taken away. As adults, we learn to use signs around us to help us find our way. Our kids are taught the same, but then when they need their signs most, they are taken away. The test is a lot of stress on the teacher and the kids. Do you truly believe we aren't giving our best?

Posted by Room 116 at 7:49 AM

I had the opportunity to go through the Coweta County school system more than 30 years ago, graduated from high school there and then from UGA. I have also had the opportunity to work for several large Fortune 500 companies, and have lived in many different cities around the country. I have never looked back and thought that I received an inferior education from having attended school in Coweta County. I understand that the curriculum is much different today from when I was in school but I believe that teachers today spend more time worrying about standardized testing than they do about making sure that the kids are actually learning something in the classroom. This is a result of what I now call "government schools." All kids, regardless of race or income level have the same teachers, the same books, and take the same tests. Spend the time that they are actually at school helping them to learn, work towards increasing parent participation, and getting more students involved in tutoring those kids that fall behind. Problems do not happen over night and neither will finding solutions for those problems. Hold those schools that continue to show poor results accountable.

Posted by Former Student at 10:59 PM

Insanity - doing the exact same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result each time. The problem with public education is just that; it is PUBLIC. One size fits all brainwashing. If you are truly concerned about your child's education, you will home school them or put them in private school even if you have to work 3 jobs, live in a trailer, eat Spam, and drink Kool-Aid with no sugar.

Posted by Eric at 10:18 PM

The blame lies with the students who failed the tests. Success is a choice and faiure is a choice. It is the sum total of all the little choices that a students makes on a day to day basis (coming to school every day on time, taking notes, doing HW, getting extra help after school, studyuing for tests, etc. instead of playing video games, watching TV, talking on the phone, hanging out with friends, working a job, etc.) They obviously did not value education enough. Students must take their education into their own hands. A students can learn as much as they want to learn, especially with the internet.

Posted by Marlin at 10:13 PM

Test scores are STRONGLY correlated to demographics. Black and Hispanic students score much lower than whites who score lower than Asians. Students from a low socioeconomic background score lower than students from a high socioeconomic backgroud. Look up any standardized test score (SAT, ACT, CogAT, Iowa, Stanford-9, CRCT, EOCT, graduation test, GRE, etc.) and you will find this to be true. A school's test scores are largely a reflection of the demographics of the population it draws from. Bear in mind the cardinal rule of statistics: correlation does not imply causation. Two factors that correlate could both be caused by a 3rd factor (how about cultural value assigned to education?). What is this point of all this? Just this: it is unfair to look at a school that is mostly white and upper- SES that has high scores and compare it to one that is largely minority and low-SES that has low test scores and make a fair comparison of how the school or the teachers or the administration are doing. Too many other factors are in play rather than just test scores.

Posted by CDog at 10:08 PM

I did not say low income and african americans ALWAYS produce lower test scores. Please read my comment closely. I am a teacher in a school system, you can look up on any website reguarding this information.

Posted by Ryan at 10:03 PM

How does the school system know what color low income is? There are just as many white and or hispanic low income students. Who supplied the school system with income information? Income information is not a part of the CRCT. To blatanly say it was the black students is totally racial and unfair. Madras, Lee and Smokey Road are predominately white middle schools. In the article the black students were blamed for three of the six middle schools not making AYP what is the explaination for the other three middle schools not making AYP that are predominately white???? Welch Elementary "may come off in September" that is not a sure thing, why was that even mentioned, are you trying to make a school in a predominately white neighborhood look better?? to appease the parents?

Posted by Concerened Parent at 9:33 PM

It is not a FACT that low income and African Americans produce low test scores. I am not sure where you went to school but since I teach in one every day, I know that your comment is false. I didn't go into education for the money. I went into education to make a difference. I want my students to be well rounded caring individuals that want to go out and be the best they can be.This is more important than some test taken at the end of a school year!! There are many factors that influence a child's learning and the home in my opinion is number one. Instead of pointing the finger, let's work together to find a solution. The current one we have (NCLB) is not working for the majority of our students.

Posted by MickeyC at 8:48 PM

Special Ed students have always counted toward a school's AYP. If a school has fewer than 40 SPED kids, then their scores don't count. Otherwise, those scores count. You can visit this site: http://gadoe.org/ayp2008.aspx to view all CRCT/AYP reports dating back to 2002-2003.

Posted by Room405 at 8:08 PM

When did Special Ed students start counting toward AYP? When NCLB first came out, students with special needs weren't counted toward AYP stats.

Posted by Looking for Answer at 7:10 PM

A quick thought on economically disadvantaged kids as they relate to the CRCT...any child who receives a free or reduced lunch is automatically classified as an ED student. Is income or race THE deciding factor in a child's education? Most definitely not. The views of the parents (rich, poor, black, white, or plaid) most assuredly affect children. If parents value education...their offspring are more likely to value it. ALL of the schools in Coweta County that did not make AYP did not make it because of a combination of the black subgroup, the special needs subgroup, and/or the economically disadvantaged subgroup. This is not racism or a case of "rich" people putting down "poor" people. The facts are there for all to see. We educators cannot make little Johnny learn if he steadfastly believes that education is bunk because mom and dad are always telling so. How many parents should make AYP: Adequate Yearly Parent? 63% sounds about right to me. Unfortunately.

Posted by Room405 at 6:37 PM

It is definitely not true that income always affects a child's education. My family would be considered in the 'low income' group yet both of my daughters are in the gifted program and always scored way above average in all standardized testing. Our income level has never affected our children's education. They have a good support system at home and a good work ethic at school. I guess if they are trying to group our children based on this specific criteria, they will have our children in the wrong group!

Posted by ~Addyson~ at 4:47 PM

It is not discrimination, it is a fact. Africian americans, and Low income house holds usually produce lower test scores. Its not always true, but most of the time it is.

Posted by Ryan at 3:25 PM

As someone else stated so eloquently, I think this whole AYP mess is a bunch of bunk! I have two daughters who went to Evans for their whole middle school career. My youngest just finished the 8th grade. We found Evans to be a wonderful school with an outstanding staff full of great teachers. These teachers always went out of their way to provide a great quality education for their students. They are always available before and after school if extra help is needed, all you have to do is ask. These teachers give tons of their free time and money for their students, just as most teachers do! Evans band program is by far the best middle school band program in this county and one of the best in the state. My daughters learned so much from Mr. Culbreath and this knowledge will be an excellent foundation as they continue in music during high school, college and possibly some sort of career in music. My daughters soaked up so much good stuff in their time at Evans. And to think I looked for every way possible to keep them from attending that school when we moved to this side of the county! I'm so glad I wasn't successful! So if you have a child at Evans or if your child is about to enter middle school and you are concerned because of this AYP mess, please know that Evans is a wonderful school and you won't be disappointed in it!

Posted by Teresa at 1:19 PM

Maybe more parents need to get off their backsides and SACRIFICE a liitle time for their kid's education! If it's a surprise that your kid can't pass these tests, count yourself as part of the problem. I'll give a pass to the disabled. These scores are far below what an excellent school would score. Gee, I wonder why there aren't any good jobs in Coweta County? These kids aren't stupid. Their parents haven't invested in them and they expected the state, the county, and the nation to step in and take their place. P.S. The previous statement is meant for all races, sexes, and religeous groups.

Posted by MJB at 12:24 PM

The school system need to find some other ways to help these students or the same results will continue to happen.

Posted by Concerned Citizen at 11:59 AM

I too have a child in special ed. I am glad they did not read the passages to my child for the reading portion of the CRCT. How else can it be determined if the student can read and comprehend what they have read?

Posted by Concerned Mom at 11:59 AM

The main reason that these tests are required for students with special needs is because parent activist groups and their advocates have demanded it. They have pushed the state and federal governments to the point that some schools even place severely handicapped students in regular education classes - just because parents demand it. These acts have nothing to do with the needs of the child, as you obviously know, but the people who make the laws don't know this. Only when parents like yourself, the parent who understands and accepts their child's unique abilities and limitations, get involved will stupid laws like NCLB be overturned. The main reason I got out of special education is that is ceased to be either special or educational. Now, it's largely a matter of placing kids in regular education classes and then putting out a dozen fires a day when things don't quite work out. Sadly, there is very little that is special about special education in the 21st century.

Posted by Former Special Ed. Teacher at 11:43 AM

Maybe the students did not get the information during the school year. Maybe the teachers’ are not teaching as they should be, but to make their class and them selves look outstanding they give grades that are not deserved therefore misleading parent and students. Race and income has nothing to do with the counties AYP. It is what the students are being taught and by whom. Some of the lowest income students are the smartest in the class!!!

Posted by upset citizen at 11:40 AM

I am proud to go to a Coweta County School. Now when we lose in sports to the Fayette schools they will have not only beat us on the field, but in the classroom as well. I propose a toast to Blake Bass, Cathy Cox and Good Ole Sonny Boy, the greatest leaders in education this country has...

Posted by Steve at 11:40 AM

Hmmm, the one elementary school they're sure will be removed from the non-AYP list was in the same situation last year. It still failed after the final reports came out. It will be interesting to see whether or not it is removed this year.

Posted by Concerned Mom at 10:56 AM

While the statistics you have on here may be accurate and stated rather bluntly. Did you consider the criticism you will receive for categorizing the "black" population and "lower income" population for our counties AYP downfall? I have to agree as our county has changed so has our school system, which use to be one of the best. People moved her just for the school system. Now they move here to get away from bad ones and make ours bad. Everyone has an opinion!

Posted by Freedom of Speech at 10:43 AM

The blame solely goes to the state! Students with disabilties were required to read the reading portion of the CRCT for themselves unless their reading abilty deficit was severe. The 5th grade passages were so long and boring. As for math, there was more reading and application than basic computation which requires critical thinking skills. Maybe our schools need to find different methods to address the reasons why Black students are usually in the subgroup that scores poorly on the math section. Do we think our schools will meet mastery by 2014???????

Posted by Ms. Concerned at 10:24 AM

color does not have a factor to do with, those stupid tests,and neither does low income house holds. I'm sure that there are just as many white kids failing as the blacks and the low income.(it's just not been said). education does not have a color.

Posted by mad as hell at 8:48 AM

63% - Seems like CCSS failed.

Posted by Parent at 8:00 AM

I have a kid who is in special education. They are simply not able to do the same work as other kids their age because they are disabled. Their goals in life are different. The facts are the facts. While I do want my kid to do well in life and be happy, I fully know and realize that they will not be on the same level as others who did not have brain damage at birth. But good old NCLB has determined that they still have to take the stupid tests and get scored. This is not fair to my child, the school, or their peers. Arnall middle is only on the list because of special education! That is bunk. It puts undue and undeserved pressure on the special education teachers that have enough to deal with. It is all BS. Thanks a lot GW. Ugh.

Posted by special needs mom at 11:16 PM

Blame, excuses, How about the real reason. Maybe the school board will redistrict the schools again, and again. This is a "real " reflection on our school board.

Posted by Joe at 10:34 PM